Dear mr saj2go
I think you will agree with me may be that institutions and Nations always known by the one who lead them not by the act of individuals.
So according to that theory, Our army will be known in the history by the acts of the generals who lead them not by the act of individuals who sacrificed nameless.
One black sheep is enough to give bad name to one herb, but the tragedy with our army was that they always lead by black sheep.
Now i will try to give answer to you post one by one.
>>if ppl died than you too. as you are also one of them.
Yes we all will die, cant understand you logic behind this line
>>as far as your choice is concern , imran khan, that is your opinion, We have our own. and this is the only >>thing in your post which is positive and constructive. I encourage you to carry on positive insertions into this >>forum.
Yes, you and every one else is free to choose what they want to, but this is the duty of every one to try to help others in making right choice, you are trying your best and same is the case with others.
Every one should be bold and courage enough to accept the argument manly.
>>as you said these generals have homes abroad. This is not true. Gen. Chishti, Gen. Gul, Gen. Niazi (Late), >>Gen, Baig, Gen. Janjua (Late) and many others only have homes in Pakistan.
There were only these generals in the entire history of army. May be the corect line Naveed should right was, most generals have their great wealth here in Pakistan and abrad as well.
>>Similarly, Not all Political leaders have homes in abroad like Shaikh Rasheed, Ijaz ul Haq, Pir Pagara, Wali >>Khan and many others. HOWEVER, the politician you favoured, Imran Khan, do have homes and wealth >>abroad. Even his x wife is loyal to him and do protest in his favour. A typical western culture.
Who knows, who have what? lets not go into details, becaue according to last year asset submission by assembly members, even Lal kothi doesnot belong to sheikh Rasheed and 50% of members of NA dont have their own cars, so no need to waste time in this point.
>>And ever you heard that this politicians and generals fled the country that there are fears about the >>country ??? If yes give evidence, if no take your words back.
Didn't get your exact meaning. What you want to say, please clarify.
But there are many army persons who are living lavishly in abroad, even son of Musharraf is in USA nd according to sources Musharraf has built hme in Turkey to live. Sh Rasheed is o fear to live in Paksitan that he needs bullet proof car full time.
>>The army has no credibility.... This un-credible army saved your ass from red army, that was the time when >>afghanis call one of your generals their army chief. That was the general, who was all alone against the >>whole learship of red army. That was the compitition between one to many.
Yes Naveed is 100% right, any one known as credible only after if he stands beside his word, our army is very famous taking UTurn due t corrupt COAs like Musharraf and prevous. those Afghanis called these Gen's their army chief, and what we call these afghani's todday? terrorist.
That Gen, hamid gul, is in jail due to another Gen. Who will trust this army any more and still you think this army is credible.
>>Bangladesh.... part of the troops, which had refused to obey orders, are native bangalis. They did this >>because they felf they have no respect not in army but in society and in politics. So they went back to >>mujeeb. And when the beharis, non-bangalis tried to campaign for pakistan, it had been used to crush them >>while they were still wearing PK uniform. As at the moment there was no bangladesh, no army and obviously >>no bangali uniform.
>>Bangladesh also have some other issues related to it. But, unfortunatly, the ppl like you dont have capability >>to to listen and absorb the facts. I tell you why in the next few lines.
>>Gen. Niazi has allegations over it that he was a corrupt man and tried to save his wealth and life. The opinion >>holders had never ever provided the evidence of it. So why and how could we believe on it. The burden of >>proof always on the shoulders of who made the comments.
>>As far as dirty jokes are concern, could you imagine your father in the age of 50s or 60s, while facing the >>most hard time of his life could even give a smile or can tell sexy jokes to his friends and family members. >>Do you have some video of it. All proof for this shit provided by the indian media that arora tell that niazi >>made me happy by.....
That is a real point, i cant expect any person to behave the way Niazi behaved, which clearly shows that he was not depressed at all by committing the most shamefull act of Pakistan's history.
What happened in Bangladesh is very clearly described in Hamood-ur-rehman comssion report. that is why that eport couldnt go public in 30 years. and finaly when it came to surface , it was very badly censored.
Do you hve video proof of every thign which you know.
i can give some very cunning examples, but dont want to.
Do you have video proof of any thing which u sent in this reply
>>The practically said that you should have alternatives for your actions. Do you agree ???
>>Ok. We disolve the Army so what is the alternative. Perhaps we should hand over the charge of the security >>of the country in the hands of other group of bastered elected from the ppl like you. As you have this opinion, >>if you say they should not be there, are you ready to take this charge. If yes, tell whats your plan, how will >>you accomplish this job.
Who is talking about disolving the army, we want army to be real hero and Pride of nation, we dont want our army to be humilated due to acts like now a days. We want army to be credible and responsible.
We want army to be with in law not above law. To Make Army accoutable is our demand, because this is the only way we can save Pakistan and armed forces.
>>As far as books are concern, I wonder how did you said that go to market. Very good. The market, the >>libraries and the internet is full of material describing the bravery, loyality and commitment of army to the >>country and to the nation.
Time is changing, now Army is losing grip over Pakistani media and publications and now time has come that real facts about army's past acts started to be public. I am not against Army or dont want to defame it. But they have to accept there failures and mistakes so we can start a new day with new beginning towards pride.
>>Killing of Liaqat ali khan and fatima jinnah by army had never been claimed by the worst enemies of army >>even, I dont know how you said that. Post some material on internet here. so we can also know about the >>killings of these figures.
There are many who re confident that Fatima Jinnah was poisoned by Ayub khan. Why till today we dont know who killed Liaqat Ali khan, because establishment dont want it, why?
>>What qaid said to ayub ??? tell us too.
Naveed has replied to this, and that is why you wont find any pic of Ayub in cap.
>>Hamood report had never been considered vitally accepted by any party. But still do not have anything like >>you talking about. The contents of the report had critically been reviewed by the authorities and that is why >>made public that it had no significant impact. And Hamood does not have that much authority to go that deep >>in the matter like this. Importantly, he had no access to information, as he never visited bangladesh for >>preparation of this report, did not meet with mujeeb, an important figure in this stunt, did not meet those >>military personals who have decided to stay in bangladesh, when army taken to prison camp and he did not >>meet any single behari victims of bloodshed. Does He ???
On this only point, you really proved that you are just trying to defend your point withou facts and figures and that you are not ready even to accpet what is right and what is wrong.
You are the first one i encountered, who have such views regarding justice hamood and his repot.
Hamood Rehman Commission repot was very well written and authenticaed, and that is why it didnt surface for years and when it got published more then half of the book was censored, but even then the clear message given by this report that "To avoid other incidents like Saqoot-e-Dahaka Army should never ever interfare in politics". What kind of impact you epect from report which surfced after 30 years and censored and under army regime.
in the end, my personal note, our armed forces espacially army is at very low morality, if you have any friend in army espacially at the rank till captain, ask him or go visit rmy mess.
there are queues with one phone in the mess and every one is dyig to get his turn, for what?
for flirtting.
Officers at above ranks are only busy in abuse of power and officers are at lower ranks are busy flirting.
let me tell u very honestly on the basis of my personal experience, more then 80% of army personel dont have any moral values, and this is because they are not inheriting it from their seniors.
We should make army accoutable.
Every one talk about army in siachin, but no one ever tried to tell us how siachin got into hands of India under this regime so silently?
If you are not aware of this, then no wonder, but i think you hve heard a news few days back that India has opened siachin for tourisom and Paksitani government condemn that issue as well.
Dear Brother every country needs army and so do we, but we need to make our army the neat and clea army, on which we can proud.